Champaka: What is Natsukashii? What do you mean by it?

Kohrogi-san:
First of all the Japanese word "Natsukashii" is usually used when you come back to your hometown or home village after a long time. Or when you meet someone whom you haven't met for a long time. Certain feelings and sentiments arise in you. This is called "Natsukashii". But when this word "Natsukashii" is translated to a foreign language I would like to express something deeper then this. When you were born you had got life from existence. You can think about your life.

It does not matter either in the west or in the east. We tend to think that our life is tough and difficult and we experience many agonies in life. The moments of joy and happiness seem to be momentary. We believe that our life is not so great usually in daily life. But actually it is not true. This world we live in is a very exciting and interesting place. We were forced not to feel it. What I am saying is that let us go back to the place before we were conditioned not to feel the excitement and joy of life.



Kohrogi-San - Austria, Summer 2005

This is an important point. We got our conditioning, discipline and education and the ways of family (each family has such things more or less) For example: An intense father and a mother who has no self-confidence or the reverse case. Before we were molded into all these we were given our life from existence. This is very very important. But we tend to focus on which nationality we got or in which family we were born etc. We were molded into certain conditions according to our environment and we become fatalists. But we were already fulfilled from the very beginning. We could not have been born in this world if anything was missing.

We will go back to that point in our work (group). We were already fulfilled of what? This is going to be the point to recognize in our work. It will be easier to experience in the group than reading this. We were complete from the very beginning but we tune into a wrong vibration. We tune into a channel, which is a very convenient system to a particular kind of people in this society. Or in other words we are to live in their game. Only very few people are gloating over it. We will return to Natsukashii so that we don't become a victim of this game.

Champaka: Is the system of any society in any era an obstacle to remember "Natsukashii"?

Kohrogi-san:
It will be easier for you to understand it when I use an extreme example. You must know the Garden of Eden. We put aside if all the Old Testament was a historical fact or not. The story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden is very famous. We talk about the Garden of Eden as a space but what I remembered was that the Garden of Eden meant the words. There were forbidden fruits. The fruit, which you should not eat. This can be understood in various ways. If I understand the forbidden fruit as words we have several words, which we should not say to others. For example we should not say the words that hurt someone. I think there are a few of such words in any country. Then is it ok to have those thoughts if we do not express it? What is the fruit in the Garden of Eden? It is to say to yourself "I am good for nothing". We human think with the words even if we do not scream or vibrate our voice-code.

There are grasses and trees and rocks and stones, mountains and rivers. I told you that the words and the Garden of Eden is the same. We human speak and decide our action by words and respond to the words. And the words are echoing in us (right now we are recording this interview but even if we do not record it) these words are echoing in the world. We need to come back to Natsukashii to understand it.

This Old Testament is also written by words. Adam was made from mud. Eve was made from a rib of Adam. They are emphasizing strange points. A rib from Adam. Eve from a rib. Like this one word brings another word. And the person who heard the words understands it and expresses with the words "Aha, that's right" or "finally I understand it" or "It cannot be so". The person will express with words or think with words. "I love you very much" or "My beloved baby" are also words.

A baby needs a long care until it becomes independent. The care of 9 months in mother's womb and a few more years or 10 years 20 years, 30 years. In some cases they need the care of whole life. Probably parents may not be alive. But the voice of parents is still echoing in you all the time even after the death of your parents. That means that you are judging yourself, punishing yourself like your parents.

I am proposing you to remember back to the time before these voices entered in you. That is the place of Natsukashii.

I had remembered it earlier than you and I realized how simple it is. I realized that this is the state of fulfillment and completion. Everyone has a channel for this. But your parents or grand parents or neighbors or the society and the law and the religion set up your channel. The state just before you were set up by these things is called Natsukashii. But the channel to that vibration is sealed up for you. I am not going to give you this channel. You have a channel but you have not remembered its existence. I am going to help you to remember that you have already that channel and because you had it you could be born here. By using your body and mind for these 3 days.

Champaka: Can you explain me in simple words what is the state of Natsukashii?

Kohrogi-san:It may sound contradictory because I am going to express something by words that cannot be expressed by words. It is a feeling of a smile. First a smile appears. You will recognize it with your eyes when you exercise with your partner in the group. You will witness the smile of your partner. Your face will start relaxing very much. It is a smile of melting down your limitations of being male or female. When the categorized idea like "I am adult" or "I am child" etc. starts melting down you will observe the existential smile. When I express it by words it will be 'Peace'. But we have to be careful when we use this word 'Peace'. We have a certain preconception to this word. Peace means no conflict or the state after war, the situation in which everyone trusts each other. It sounds good but it is a stereotype way of thinking. In Japanese Peace is 'Heiwa'. 'Hei' means calmness and 'Wa' means harmony. It gives us the idea as if nothing special is going on and a flat feeling. But if we remember well 'Hei' means equality and 'Wa' means that everybody is in the same field together.

For example your beloved grand-pa dies, you break up with your lover after many dramas or you fail the entrance examination. You wish to choose not to have such events in your life. 'Peace' means for me the situation which all the characters and all the events are gathering together. But in general we do not want negative events. We welcome only the soft air, successful events, the joy. There is a clear choice in us. Here I see the result of our discipline and education. We are so conditioned to choose by our discipline and education. That's why we can't authentically smile. The smile, which radiate from you like a fragrance, is not possible. You prefer this event but not that event. You deny certain events and welcome other events. This very action of choice creates the distortion in the atmosphere. There are men and women, young and old in this world. But you want only the young. This is good. That is not good. This place is only for the peace. Everybody is trying to create a peaceful place….

I had remembered that sadness and anger and pains, certain ideas, bliss. All are gathering in this world. How wonderful it is. How lively and silent it is. Everybody must have had this experience: Parents are talking with friends or neighbors. Then your kids or other kids demand you. "Hey mom listen to me. Papa listen to me". Your answer "Yes, but we are talking very important things". But. "Anyway it is very important". You persuade them and you don't listen to them. "Please listen to me," insists the kid. Or they start behaving mischievously. You can't continue the conversation anymore and listen to them. "What's the matter," you say and they say, " This and that happened…."That's great. That's nice," you say. When you accept the existence of the child they will ask you if they can go out to play. "Yes of course" Like this the situation will move on smoothly. Actually the event is the same.

Sad event and angry event comes to you asking, "Listen to me" But you neglect them saying "Anger should not come!" "Sadness should not come to me." Then these events will insist their existence until you recognize them. It seems that you call this phenomenon as noisy mind. When you say your mind is noisy you put a negative judgment on it. We don't use noisy in Japan like "What a wonderful place it is so noisy". It will be the same in USA, or England or in France. When we use 'noisy' it means it is not good. What we mean by noisy is something negative like anger, sadness betrayal or hard experience. All events need to be accepted and listened to. By accepting the negative event, the event starts showing a relaxed face saying: "I go out to play" and melts away. It is similar to a smile.

Champaka: When we continue Natsukashii work it sounds like we can embrace everything, which will happen, in our life. Event is just happening and it is there as it is.

Kohrogi-san:

This way of saying, “let it be as it is” has existed in Japan since a long time ago. You think that resistance makes no difference. Rather you’ll get tired if you resist to what’s happening. You also say that life is not so easy as you hope. That’s why “let it be”. Even if you resist nothing will change. Resistance makes you tired and you may get hurt. What I would like to say is that the event itself has a kind of character. Sad event has a character like a human. Many people are cutting their daily events into round slices. I will work on this in the group. Saying “Shit! Nothing good happens today” or “My life hasn’t been great for these 1 or 2 years.” Although in reality there is no gap in your life. There is no gap between two events. But everybody seems to have exactly the same timing to complain. It is like a typical stereotype. For example “I have been making effort for a year but everything is in vain!” Zebra and Hippopotamus are not counting the time like human. Why do animals exist on this earth? You may say that they have been here with or without any reason. They are simply here.

I would like to mention you the basic yoga posture. The posture of grasshopper, the posture of cat, and lion. Imitating the posture of these creatures gives us a big hint. If you are already practicing yoga please try to become the animal you are imitating. You will come closer to Natsukashii feeling. “Let it be as it is” may be understood in pessimistic way in Japan. You understand “Let it be” as “whatever I may say makes no difference”. This is an attitude to understand the event in life separate from you.
There is a Japanese saying “Winds are blowing to a willow”. It means to ignore the event with perfect indifference. This is not wrong in a way. But what I think is that the events are not coming to you, rather all the events are happening with you. Without you these events cannot happen. For example: “Shit I got in the rain and now I am wet.” If you are in the room the event which will happen with you would be that you are watching someone getting wet in the rain from the room without getting wet. After all your events are happening with you. But many people are wishing that unhappy events should not happen to them. Like this you separate you from the event. If I explain you the real connection between you and the event from the particle they are melting…

Champaka: Melting?

Kohrogi-san:
Outside and inside are the same. But we have two eyes and we misunderstand that eyes are for looking outside the physical body. For example: “It is windy outside.” or “It is snowing in the mountain,” or “Persons are walking in the park”. To tell you the truth eyes are to look inside. We exist outside of the body. You exist outside of the body but the place to recognize it is in your physical body. For example “It is cold today,” or “I have been doing this for a long time,” or “How is he/she doing now” and looking at the letter from him/her. You open the envelope and open the letter and read a bit. “Wow she is still using the same paper.” You are taking all these information and the sensation of the paper in by feeling them. Actually the events outside you happen only with you. Without you your events will not happen. You also exist outside of your physical body. But it seems that you all believe that you exist only inside your physical body. That’s why you dress up. You enter the room and close the door or you turn you face away from someone. Because you behave from the idea that you exist only in your physical body. Then the idea arises that any moment somebody might invade you. You become like persecution mania. You exist outside of you. When you say “Let it be as it is,” it gives the impression that events are happening beside you. If I correct it. “Let it be. Be as you are.” “Be as you exist” or “be as everything has been prepared.” Everything was ready from the very beginning. The event can’t happen if anything is missing. And the event is very lonely. They want to stay with you all the time. But you start choosing again that only good events should happen in your life. Many of you cut the events into round slices.

For example: There was a big railway accident in Japan in 2005 and 107 people died. They must have been happy when they caught that train. One university student was late for school and his mother helped bringing him to the station by car. He caught that train and died. The mother was really in grief. I feel sorry for her. But I wonder why they were so much in a hurry to go where? What was their plan? When you cut the part in which he caught that train into a round slice, it looks good. He was on time. Everything was perfect as he planned. But what was his plan? To die in a train accident? I would like to explain to you. I really meditated over it. I shifted my consciousness to remember for those 107 people. Because of them I have remembered this. This is going to be kuyou for them. (kuyou means send off the dead soul). Reality is not like cutting into round slice. It is like a tube. Of course the left families from that train accident must be very sad. I am not talking something so that they won’t feel sad anymore. It is natural to be sad. It is a sad event. That’s why we should not cut it into a round slice. The tendency to cut into round slice is this: You always check at the end of the day “What is today’s achievement?” or “I have been making effort for 3 years” or “I have been doing this already for 10 years.”Rhinoceros or Hippopotamus or Giraffe or Zebra are not counting the time like “What is the result of these past 3 years?”.

Champaka: People who participate in this kind of work have certain ideas about meditation and getting enlightened. One of the ideas is that we meditate and do the group to grow. And finally hopefully we reach to enlightenment. This way of thinking must have come from our education. But what you are talking about by Natsukashii cannot be understood by this way of thinking. I know you are trying hard to explain something, which cannot be explained by words.

Kohrogi-san:
Enlightenment. Getting enlightenment. You are not enlightened yet. You think that you are not at all enlightened. So you try to evolve, to progress, to grow. You upgrade yourself. Tomorrow will be better than today. The day after tomorrow might be better than tomorrow. Today is better than 5 years ago. And in 5 years you will be better than today. This way of thinking stinks of education. You create hierarchy. You say that you have grown up a lot compared to 3 years ago. I mentioned about cutting your life into a round slice. You want to get enlightened. You feel that this is not enlightenment. In that sense you are not cutting your state into a round slice. Your state today is not the final judgment for you. I would like you to keep this attitude in every daily event.

You want to get enlightened. Probably the world will be luminous when you get enlightened. Or you will not be so anxious about things after enlightenment. Or you may be able to share more love with other people. Probably en enlightened person feels that this world is lacking something. If you ask me these are all ambitions. If I have to use the word enlightenment this world is filled with enlightenment in reality. But as I mentioned before you believe that you are in your physical body and you are looking around saying what is outside of my body?

You are in the place, which is filled with enlightenment. You were forced to forget the channel to know it. You were closed up in a prison. Remember that. You were told, “You are a child.” “Behave like a boy!” and you look at the mirror and believed that you were a boy and 8 years old. Or your parents may have said that you should behave like your elder brother… Competition and comparison makes everyone instable. The best way and easiest way to get attention from the people is to make them afraid, to make them anxious. Or you can give the idea that they are inferior and compare with someone else. I do not like this but people make effort by these tricks.

Enlightenment. Can’t you see some fixed idea in this word enlightenment? It is not Now, not Here, not This. You keep on shifting to the future. Or you hope for the future saying that this method will do or this practice will do. What I want to say is this: Please recognize the starting point. The past. I think you will remember it when you participate Natsukashii Seminar. I insist to use the word ‘remember’. You will feel that everything was already ready. You simply remember it. And ultimate future is the past. The past is incomplete future.

Talking about events. Almost all events are there in the past. I use Japanese Haiku painting as an example. The picture is almost complete just one more touch then it will become a radiant piece of art. Ultimate future is your past. Your past has not been completed yet. Who is going to give the last touch? You? How? Just you remember yourself. Remembering yourself is the final touch.

There is a saying in China: ‘ Painting the dragon but forgot to put the eyes.’ Drawing the dragon and the eyes are put at the end. Natsukashii work is very similar to it. But if I start talking about a dragon or missing eyes of the dragon, it sounds serious and difficult. Actually Natsukashii work is a very relaxed spacious, slow and an easy smiling experience. I am always taking care of these points in my work because our life itself is a very relaxed, slow and easy thing.

Darwin introduced the theory of evolution. People twisted what Darwin actually said. He did not say that. He simply reported what he observed in the nature. But the theory of evolution was really convenient for the education and the religion to misuse.

Champaka: We will practice several exercise to find Natsukashii face in the group and we return back to the face of Natsukashii. I think people who never did this group have no idea what is Natsukashii face. What is Natsukashii face?

Kohrogi-san:In short it is a state before you got discipline and education, before you were molded into a certain fate. That is Natsukashii face.

Champaka: While we practice several exercises and meditate in the group Natsukashii face will be….?

Kohrogi-san: Coming out and you all will witness many Natsukashii faces.

Champaka: I think that once we start participating this work and become conscious of Natsukashii face, our face in daily life starts changing. What do you think about it?

Kohrogi-san:
Imagine that you have an appointment with your friend in front of the station. If you know the person already you will never miss the person, unless you wait for him/her at the wrong time. You immediately recognize your friend and call her: “Come here”, or “Wow, long time no see.” Don’t you think it is so mysterious? Everybody’s eyes are two and horizontal. The distance between the right and the left eye is 2-3 cm at the shortest 1,5 cm. But you can recognize your friends or your mother from far away. You recognize your beloved not because she has her nose on the left backside of her head or because she has 4 eyes. Within an instant second you recognize the person. This is actually a great thing. Probably the difference is a few mm but still you can recognize the difference. Why?

This will help you to understand Natsukashii. Because you have an amazing ability to recognize. Once you participate Natsukashii work you can bring it back to your home and continue practicing it. And remembering what happened in the group from time to time is also a part of this work! Even if you are in the train as soon as you start remembering the process in the group your face will become Natsukashii face soon. Because what you have witnessed in the group was your partner’s Natsukashii face and your Natsukashii face. You witnessed the original face in the group and because you remember these experiences your face will become the same. Once you participate 3 days of Natsukashii group as soon as you remember the group your face will become Natsukashii. And people who have never done Natsukashii group may feel disturbed. Or they may not notice it at all. Talking about noticing Natsukashii face or not: People who are under the influence of normal education or under the pressure and stress of the society (so called social animal state of human being) cannot notice it. But they are noticing it deep inside. They cannot recognize the fact that they are actually realizing it. They may wonder why you are smiling or think you must be remembering something of the past. But persons who have an eye to see can recognize it.

I would like you to experiment after the group:
First please make yourself comfortable. Lying on the sofa and using a hand mirror is fine. If you can do it in the bathroom that’s also fine. Then you start remembering what happened in the Natsukashii group. You can keep your eyes closed. You slowly open your eyes and look at your face in the mirror. That would be your Natsukashii face. I will predict you, that face will be very peaceful, very warm and very full. Everybody will be able to see that face. The next step is that you stand in front of the mirror and make that face. Then from that expression your inner state will become Natsukashii and you can carry that state all the time. Slowly you will get used to it and without mirror by making that expression you will understand many things in your life. “Aha” or “Now the event is happening” and you will say “hello” to the event saying:
“Let’s go together.” It is not that the event is coming to you. It is not that the event should not come. You will realize that the event and you are one. This is not something to discuss or persuade. You will feel the joy how simple it is after this work. But the majority of people on this planet are misunderstanding and thinking that this world is not simple. I think it is natural. Since you were born there were many tricks and you were forced to believe that this world is difficult.

I say to you:

It is simple, very simple, to know the connection between you and this world.

See you in the group.

Interview by Champaka Yoshi. Translated from Japanse to English by Champaka Yoshi.